Interesting takes (Politics)

"ImmoralMinority" (araimondo)
08/20/2019 at 10:40 • Filed to: None

Presented without comment. These are interesting times.

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DISCUSSION (61)

Future next gen S2000 owner > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 10:48

That second opinion piece is cherry picking like crazy.

On a related note, can we get the fed to accurately calculate inflation, that’d be great. Thanks.

Ash78, voting early and often > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 10:49

Promising a $15 minimum wage is just vote-buying among the most desperate and uneducated people in the country.

I’m not against increases in the wage (since we already have it, good luck getting rid of it) but massive, one-time changes in economic policy can have major unintended consequences. Things have to be phased.

Same thing for student loan forgiveness. It needs to be gradual, and not let anyone completely off the hook for their decisions. After all, people’s willingness to chase cheap money (student loans) is a big part of what caused college costs to increase so much. That’s a downward spiral.

I hate Trump for his attitude, delivery, and generally self-aggrandizing assholishness, but if Warren is the other choice then I know where we’re headed.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 10:50

1. * Could* win? I’d put down running Paseo money that he WILL win.

2. I've had blow jobs that were less glowing than that opinion piece.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Ash78, voting early and often
08/20/2019 at 10:53

I’m going to write myself in. Would you like to be my VP when I win?

Nibby > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 10:54

VOTE SCOOB/NIBBY 2020

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Ash78, voting early and often
08/20/2019 at 10:55

Those same arguments also hold true for: deporting illegal aliens, building a wall, starting a trade war, etc. Both parties know their base and what will make them pay attention.

Plus, at some level, aren’t all campaign promises vote buying?

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
08/20/2019 at 10:56

Yeah, he’s going to win again. The Democrats have yet to put an appealing candidate out. All are either too far left, too soft, or too niche.

wkiernan > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 10:58

I couldn’t read the WaPo article, I’ve exhausted their free articles for this month.

For Sweden > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 10:59

Elizabeth Warren just copied Trump’s trade policies o f course she is a threat.

fintail > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 10:59

I’ll regrettably wager the first one is correct. The Ds aren’t offering much right now, and the base still embraces him no matter the hypocrisy.

The second one is awful cherry pick ed luckyboomer trickle downer garbage from a source who likely wouldn’t be able to hack it if he started over in the reality of 2019. I will let the reader comments speak for themselves, they just pick him apart and slay him.

TorqueToYield > Ash78, voting early and often
08/20/2019 at 10:59

The real joke is min wage isn’t indexed to inflation. But if it was then it wouldn’t be a political football every year.

Kinja'd!!!

OPPOsaurus WRX > Ash78, voting early and often
08/20/2019 at 10:59

i don’ t think its necessarily that there is student debt, its that tuition is too high. my father was able to work part time while in college and pretty much had his bills paid off as he went. I applied at the same school (not to copy but because it was actually a good school for my major) and I’d still be paying off the debt. There is no reason tuition should be $40-50k a semester . Its really said that investing in the future has become more focused on making profit off those kids than providing a future for the people and the country.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 11:03

Kinja'd!!!

fintail > Ash78, voting early and often
08/20/2019 at 11:03

Index the wage to 50 years ago when the luckiest generation was getting their start. It would be closer to $15 t han what it is now, but those who made it all during much less competitive and expensive times, or inherited a bunch from daddy, would never let it happen.

Textured Soy Protein > wkiernan
08/20/2019 at 11:08

Open in an incognito tab to get around the paywall. You’re welcome.

mazda616 > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 11:17

I really don’t want to see him win again but the chances of a Dem becoming popular aren’t looking good. Trump’s base worships him as a god-like figure, and nothing will change that.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 11:24

Thanks to a U.S. economic surge over the past two years fueled by Trump’s tax cuts and deregulation

That’s a hell of a conclusion to jump to with no proof at all . I work at a major manufacturer and Trump’s policies have hurt us more than helped. I will say that his tax cuts did make the economy surge but only IF you measure the economy by the stock market. All those stock buy backs from the tax cuts have pushed stock prices higher than they realistically should be. We are due for a recession...when it comes I have a feeling Trump’s policies will only make it worse than it would be otherwise.

atfsgeoff > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 11:27

Another interesting take: Student loans and colleges today, are the scrip and company stores of a hundred years ago.

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > fintail
08/20/2019 at 11:28

Best chance is that enough Dems learn from last election and just vote for the blue one this time, even if their blue one doesn’t get the nomination .

WilliamsSW > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 11:30

I learned nothing from that first article at all.

I do think all the speculation at this point over whether he’ll win re-election is silly. It’s just way too early in the game. We might have a recesssion, we might not, we have no idea who the Democrats will nominate, etc. Flip a coin and pick your answer, then write a cherry picked think piece to defend it. Apparently that pays well.

On Warren, I’m not a fan, and I get the impression these days that she’s throwing stuff at the wall to try to overcome the fact that she’s behind. I’d rather she stayed there.

nermal > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 11:32

Lots of bias in regards to approval ratings. It does note correctly how Obama was in the low 40%-ish range at this point in his first term, and we see how well that worked for him. Then goes right back to Trump-bashing. I still stand firm believing that the only D candidate that can beat him is Williamson.

The only front running D candidate that isn’t a severe economic threat is Biden. Everybody else will lead to at least a 1k point drop in the stock market on election day in the unlikely event that they win.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Ash78, voting early and often
08/20/2019 at 11:34

Why the minimum wage is not pegged to inflation is beyond me. Raise it $10/hr and peg it to inflation this time so we can stop having this stupid discussion.

Student loan forgiveness should not be a blank check...people made bad decisions, they should live with those consequences. I think there is some room for debt relief for some, but first tackle the cost of college exploding.

I like that Warren actually lays out her policy proposals though...we STILL can’t get that from Trump. I will any day vote Warren over Trump...she may have some policies I don’t agree with but most of those will never make it through Congress anyways.

Ash78, voting early and often > OPPOsaurus WRX
08/20/2019 at 11:34

Correct, but tuition and student loan availability have been a chicken & egg thing, especially in the past decade. If student loans are so widely available, with tax deductibility and deferred payments, then students/parents are less likely to shop around and put any kind of pressure on schools to be more affordable. And not many parents want to simply say “NO” to their kids when other options exist. The old mantra was that you’d just pay it off for a few years after graduation...

It’s really the same idea with high-deductible health plans, but I have yet to see a situation where my “pressure” altered what a doctor prescribed or what tests they performed. Yesterday was a small victory, as I explained to my son’s pediatrician that I’d prefer the $4/medicine and not the $70/month version for basically the same outcome. But does anyone in healthcare internalize that comment or use it to shape their behaviors? Not likely.

Similar with higher ed. I’d vote to just boycott colleges....but I don’t want to be the only one doing it. That would take a seriously concerted effort to pull off as a society.

Ash78, voting early and often > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
08/20/2019 at 11:35

True — it’s always vote buying in some fashion . I think this one just jumps out at me because it’s buying votes from people who won’t all benefit from it. A ton of them would vote because of it , then many would become unemployed quickly if we were seriously talking about a 100% wage increase. It’s just too drastic.

DipodomysDeserti > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 11:37

“Like seemingly everyone in Washington today, she is all too willing to increase government debt — debt that will ultimately be paid for by taxpayers, an indirect form of the household debt she touts as an economic threat.”

If federal debt is an indirect form of household debt, then our billionaire president needs to cut me a fucking check.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

Donald Trump: As projected in Table S-10 in the FY 2020 budget , Trump plans to add $5.088 trillion to the debt in his first term. That’s a 30 percent increase from the $20.245 trillion debt at the end of Obama’s last budget for FY 2017. If he remains in office for a second term, he plans to add $9.1 trillion. Trump had promised to eliminate the debt during his campaign.

FY 2021 - $1.276 trillion. FY 2020 - $1.281 trillion. FY 2019 - $1.314 trillion. FY 2018 - $1.217 trillion.

I don’t think Pudzer really cares about debt . He’s a Bible thumper and is hoping Trump strokes out in his second term and hands the reins over to Howdy Doody.

Ash78, voting early and often > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
08/20/2019 at 11:39

And let’s get rid of the “ server wage” and tipping, too. Seriously, that’s a ridiculous and awkward arrangement across the board. I expect decent service from decent people, for a decent wage. If a server is only doing a good job for a tip, that’s basically prostitution and I have to question their work ethic to begin with. Pay them good money if they’re doing a good job.

someassemblyrequired > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 11:41

TRUDEAU/MERKEL 2020

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > nermal
08/20/2019 at 11:44

Everybody else will lead to at least a 1k point drop in the stock market on election day in the unlikely event that they win.

Which tells you just how much is wrong with Wall St

Azrek > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 11:53

No one has new ideas or has a plan...thus kick the can and hope for the best!

fintail > Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast
08/20/2019 at 11:53

Seems to be the only chance right now, we will see if 2016 is a lesson learned. 2020 will be voting against a regime, not voting for a beloved candidate .

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > mazda616
08/20/2019 at 11:53

I don’t know, I don’t see him winning Wisconsin again. I think a lot of people that swung it in his favor were in the “I just want something to change” camp...and Clinton was the opposite of change.

I think the states he barely won are going to be difficult for him to win again. His tariffs are really hurting farmers in those areas which in turn hurt the rural areas disproportionately. His re-election is the reason he backed off on his latest tariff proposal.

I think if the Democrats nominate Biden though it’s a toss up since he’s basically Clinton 2.0, but worse in almost every way.

marshknute > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 12:00

I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Trump won a second term.

You can’t be in favor of decriminalizing border crossings and giving free welfare/healthcare/college to illegal immigrants and then claim Trump is the crazy one. Americans see through that bullshit.

Americans only care about one thing: jobs. The Rustbelt voiced their concerns in 2016, and Democrats’ response was basically, “oh but you’re white, just use your white privilege to find a new job. But vote for me anyway or you’re a racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe.” And then Democrats were somehow surprised when the Rustbelt voted against them out of spite. And rather than learn from their mistakes, they doubled down on identity politics. Party of the working man, my ass.

The reality is that Trump is still talking about jobs, his economy is booming, and Americans don’t want to fuck that up. They’ll gladly put up with his absurd tweeting if it means they maintain job security.

FFS, we have a nation of energized democrats and independents, and scores of moderate republicans with Trump fatigue. A ll Democrats have to do to win is be less crazy than Trump, and and they can’t even manage that.

Kinja'd!!!

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Ash78, voting early and often
08/20/2019 at 12:00

Healthcare is the one thing I really agree with Democrats on, it’s not something that obeys traditional capitalistic principles. Sure you can shop your healthcare around some, but if you need to get a CT scan then you can’t just not get one if it’s too expensive. Sure you can find a place that does if for $500 instead of $2500, but many people can’t even afford that. Healthcare needs to be either heavily regulated with strong price controls or just offer M4A.

fintail > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
08/20/2019 at 12:02

And how people still confuse the stock market with the economy.

jimz > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
08/20/2019 at 12:03

the recovery started in 2010, but the “talking points” would have you believe it wasn’t until 2017. but then again, they’re people who actually say stuff like this:

Kinja'd!!!

gettingoldercarguy > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 12:08

More left sniping? You don't say...

Textured Soy Protein > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 12:10

Andy Puzder should stick to selling burgers with overly-suggestive commercials that won’t fly in the #metoo era, not serious economic policy.

BigBlock440 > TorqueToYield
08/20/2019 at 12:43

Looks like we’ve still got a ways to go until it’s back at the level it was introduced to. For some reason people want it to be at the same level it was when inflation was 18%.

Thomas Donohue > wkiernan
08/20/2019 at 12:51

Clear cookies, then use a different browser.

BigBlock440 > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
08/20/2019 at 12:52

The statement isn’t about policies in general, just about the tax cuts and deregulation. What have those two specifically done to hurt?

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > Textured Soy Protein
08/20/2019 at 13:14

NYT detects that, I think. Still possible with other methods, but I really should just pay for the news from quality sources.

blacktruck18 > wkiernan
08/20/2019 at 13:18

Download an app called Pocket, it’s like favorites in a browser except it’s an app. Save it to Pocket and read at your leisure, with out pay walls.

Also, unsubscribe from Pocket’s emails a s soon as you get the app.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > BigBlock440
08/20/2019 at 13:19

You can’t take those two things in a vacuum and then talk about the economy as a whole.

Even so, those 2 things haven’t affected us in any way, good or bad. Tax cuts only lead to marginally more investment...if some investment was going to lead to more money being made a company will make that investment whether or not they had tax cuts. Dere gulation only helps when there is a financial incentive to do the right thing anyways.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > nermal
08/20/2019 at 13:21

What does a 1k drop in the stock market on election day have to do with the economy? That doesn’t make someone an “economic threat.”

MrSnrub > ImmoralMinority
08/20/2019 at 13:26

No real disagreement with the Atlantic article. Trump could definitely win re-election, though I think he’s weaker than past incumbents have been. I’d give him a 50/50 shot right now. If a recession happens before the election, it’s going to be much more difficult for him.

Considering Andy Pudzer’s colorful history I wouldn’t give his opinions much weight. What he leaves out in mentioning the CBO report on the minimum wage is that while 1.3 million people might lose their jobs, 17-27 million people would see their wages increase . The decrease in household incomes would also be concentrated on the higher end of the spectrum; it’s effectively redistribution.

Similarly he misrepresents Warren’s other proposals. The child care plan would be funded through a wealth tax. Whether that would completely offset the costs I can’t say, but Pudzer makes it sound like it would be financed entirely through deficit spending. Cancelling student loan debt would likely be a huge stimulus to the economy as income currently allocated to debt service would be directed to buying actual goods and services, but there’s no mention of that.

There’s a discussion to be had about whether the tradeoffs of these policies are worthwhile; I think they are for the most part, but Pudzer, perhaps unsurprisingly for someone who couldn’t even make it into the Trump administration , is not honest enough to mention the benefits in the first place.

smobgirl > Ash78, voting early and often
08/20/2019 at 13:40

Ah, the number of degrees I would have (and where they would come from!) if someone ELSE was paying...!

marshknute > Ash78, voting early and often
08/20/2019 at 13:47

Eh, I’ve been to Europe often enough to say tipping culture is unequivocally better. In Europe, there’s no fucking urgency.

Sit down...wait 3 hours...server saunters on over at the approximate speed of tree growth and takes your drink order...wait 3 hours...drinks show up...wait 3 hours...server takes your meal order...wait...wait...literally die of starvation after 17 days of waiting while the server does fuck all.

Here in the States?

Server sprints over like they’re being chased by a lion , takes your order in 13 seconds, checks on you every 2 minutes, food comes out fast AF, and you get 3 courses in under an hour. Awesome, done, here’s your tip, peace out .

Not to mention, tipped servers almost always make more than non-tipped servers. Only bad servers don’t like tipped wages .

Ash78, voting early and often > marshknute
08/20/2019 at 14:18

Absolutely agree on Europe, but that’s Europe.

When I made $4.25 an hour, I hustled because I was glad to have a job. I liked interacting with people and it was a good fit for me (both food service and dining room attendant). 2 years later, my first trip to Europe, all that struck me was an entitlement mentality in the service industry. Or just a “mutually acceptable laziness.” This was mostly Southern Europe, fwiw, and I’ve just come to accept that as part of the culture there. I don’t think tipping would change it.

Switzerland and Bavaria struck me as the best of both worlds — friendly and efficient.

Overly generalizing here...

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > marshknute
08/20/2019 at 14:45

Only bad servers don’t like tipped wages.

This also depends on the restaurant and clientele. My wife worked for a short time at a restaurant as a server and the manager gave her morning shifts 90% of the time and it was located in a retirement community so between breakfast not being nearly as lucrative as dinner and the retirees who thought $1 was a generous tip she was often making close to minimum wage if not below it.

Yes, the servers who work dinner at fancy places can make bank, but that’s probably not the majority.

Textured Soy Protein > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
08/20/2019 at 15:11

WaPo paywa ll is easily defeat- able with incognito tabs. Not sure about NYT. I was all about the incognito tabs for WaPo. B ut s ince I moved to DC last year, and my wife missed getting physical newspapers, we signed up for WaPo weekend delivery which included a free digital subscription for both of us. I basically never read the actual paper but I use the app all the time.

gettingoldercarguy > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
08/20/2019 at 15:23

Hot take, everybody is expecting him to win like they were expecting Hillary to win in '16.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > gettingoldercarguy
08/20/2019 at 16:00

I don’t think those are related. Hilary was also not the sitting president at the time.

gettingoldercarguy > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
08/20/2019 at 16:52

Yeah, that’s true. I’m just talking from a superficial level. Heck, this early in the 2016 cycle the majority of people definitely didn’t think Trump was going to make it.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
08/20/2019 at 17:44

Amen. And approve of it or not, she isn’t just randomly coming by hey key policy positions to pander. She has a long track record of working towards these goals - in fact it’s how she ended up in the senate in the first place, after her work standing up the CFPB. Listening to her positions sometimes leaves me uneasy, but I also know that she will never be able to achieve 100% of what she is promising - it is simply her ideal position.

With her coming from a position of good faith and actually having currency in her beliefs, I’ll go along with that any day compared to the mess we have today where the president’s position on any given topic is driven by whomever he spoke to last, said nice things about him, or whatever garbage Fox News happens to be spewing.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > MrSnrub
08/20/2019 at 17:52

Where have you been all this time, with reasonable thoughts like that?!

BigBlock440 > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
08/20/2019 at 18:50

if some investment was going to lead to more money being made a company will make that investment whether or not they had tax cuts

That’s a nice generalization, but not true when you factor in corporate accountants. My plant bought a $500k piece of equipment (built in Ohio) thanks to the tax cut. The problem I ran into getting it approved was the additional profit was taxed at a higher rate, making the payback a year or so longer, so we didn’t get it in 2017. With the 2018 tax rates, it suddenly met the payback requirements, due to the company being allowed to keep more of the profits. That’s not the only machine where that scenario played out in our plant either, I’m sure other plants of ours had similar scenarios (I know with this specific equipment, they’re making a case for the remaining 5 plants).

Did the rest of the policies help? Not in the short term, but could in the long term. Did the two specifically called out there help? Absolutely.

nermal > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
08/20/2019 at 18:56

It means that the speculators think stock prices are gonna go down. The same speculators that lead to the yield curve inverting recently, signaling a plethora of doom & gloom reporting on the current state of the economy.

A yuuuuge drop in the market, as would happen if not -Trump wins, is an indicator that speculators think that publicly traded businesses will do poorly in future results. Poor business results are bad for.... basically everybody.

nermal > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
08/20/2019 at 18:59

It’s not a perfect system by any means, nor is it the only indicator of economic success. But it is a reflection of the trends of publicly traded businesses and speculation on their future trends.

Also, due to the increase in 401k / IRA savings accounts for retirement as opposed to pensions, it is now more important for more regular jagoffs.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Ash78, voting early and often
08/20/2019 at 20:33

with how screwed up insurance is there is a good chance they don’t know or don’t want to say so as to scare you into not taking the treatment.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast
08/20/2019 at 20:35

going by some morons on my FB feed, they’re doubling down and taking a corbyn stance of burn down the establishment.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > nermal
08/20/2019 at 22:14

Isn't Trump president now? Maybe pleasing stock speculators (and market reporters) isn't a worthwhile goal.